Why is it often so difficult to execute a brilliant strategy, launch a groundbreaking product, or implement an innovative business model? The answer is simple: leadership is the engine that brings ambitions to life.
In the BNR radio programme “Baanbrekende Businessmodellen” (Pioneering Business Models), John van Schagen and his co-host Patrick van der Pijl discussed this theme. Patrick, CEO of Business Models Inc. and producer of the bestseller Business Model Generation, is an authority on business model innovation. Yet this episode wasn’t focused on tools or strategies, it centered on people: the leaders who make innovation happen. Joining the conversation was Thomas Beerepoot, founder of Bolster, who shared his insights on the topic.
During the conversation, Thomas highlighted a common issue: companies invest heavily in strategy and innovation but often struggle to turn their plans into reality.
“At the first setback, a project is often shelved,” Thomas explained. ” This is because companies do not make clear choices and place too much value on the short-term instead of building for the long-term.”
Patrick adds that the evolving nature of business models demands a new kind of leadership:
“Business models have become more dynamic. This requires a shift from hierarchy and control to collaboration, co-creation, and people-centered leadership.”
Yet, traditional leadership is not entirely obsolete. Flexibility is the key, Thomas emphasized:
“A good leader adapts. Sometimes clear guidance is needed, and other times, autonomy is the priority. It’s about balancing structure and freedom.”
This combination of guidance and adaptability is essential to bridging what Patrick calls the “strategy-execution gap”—the divide between planning and implementation. To better understand this, Patrick visited Bolster’s office in Haarlem after an initial conversation with Thomas. What began as an informal meeting left a lasting impression.
“I told Thomas, ‘I’ll drop by sometime.’ He agreed and said, ‘I’ll invite a colleague too, because this is about you as well.’ And I thought, ‘It’s not about me at all!’ But I went for an hour, and I must say, I was truly impressed.”
At Bolster, Patrick saw how they integrate leadership development with strategy. The approach inspired him so much that he messaged Thomas afterward:
“This was mind-blowing! Thanks a million!”
The takeaway is clear: innovation doesn’t just depend on great ideas but on the leadership that brings those ideas to life. Strong leaders make deliberate choices, provide direction, and have the courage to focus on the long term, even when challenges arise. Curious to learn more about the role of leadership in driving innovation?
Listen to the full episode of BNR Baanbrekende Businessmodellen on Spotify (only available in Dutch).
Below you will find the transcript of the radio broadcast in English:
Transcript Broadcast: BNR Radio – Groundbreaking Business Models
How Great Leaders Drive Innovation
Interviewer(s): John van Schagen & Patrick van der Pijl
Guest: Thomas Beerepoot – Partner at Bolster
[John] What is the name of your company?
[Thomas] Bolster.
[John] What’s the biggest misconception about leadership within an organization?
[Thomas] That you can plan everything in advance.
[John] What makes a leader strong and effective?
[Thomas] A good leader adapts to their environment, stays true to themselves, and keeps their focus on the ultimate goal.
[John] How would you describe yourself as a manager?
[Thomas] I would rather describe myself as a leader than a manager. I’m not very good at managing people; for that, I prefer to surround myself with the right individuals. But as a leader, I’m good at setting a vision and taking concrete steps to realize that vision.
[John] What problem do you solve?
[Thomas] We ensure that all those beautiful plans, visions, and business models actually gain momentum. We make sure real decisions are made so that companies achieve the results they aim for.
[John] Welcome to Groundbreaking Business Models, where we discuss companies reinventing themselves and newcomers shaking up established markets. With me, John van Schagen, and Patrick van der Pijl. Our guest today is Thomas Beerepoot from Bolster. Welcome.
[John] What can companies come to you for?
[Thomas] When they truly want to get things moving, when they want real change. No more talk, but taking real steps. That’s when we’re happy to help.
[John] It often concerns large companies struggling with leadership and strategy development issues, unsure of which direction to take. Is that when you step in to guide them?
[Thomas] Large companies are often excellent at managing processes and running massive organizations with millions of customers. However, where they struggle is in creating something new. They have difficulty developing new businesses or surprising customers in an innovative way—something smaller companies are often much better at. But smaller companies lack scale. If you can combine something new with the millions of customers you already have, you create an ‘unfair advantage.’ That’s how companies can truly grow and succeed.
[John] Do you work on an hourly basis?
[Thomas] That depends. Often, when we propose result-based payment, it gets stuck at the procurement departments. It’s a nice idea, but in practice, it’s difficult to formalize and is often seen as a risk. We’re flexible either way.
[John] By the way, Patrick, regular listeners might wonder why you invited Thomas to discuss this. Business models and leadership—what’s the relationship between these two topics?
[Patrick] In this program, we focus heavily on groundbreaking business models. But such models can only be created through people who show leadership. This aspect is often underestimated. You can develop an excellent business model, but during the growth phase, a different type of leadership is often needed. You need to be flexible in that. Additionally, you sometimes see that a management or executive team does not work well together to achieve the desired results. This is what we call a sort of ‘strategy-execution gap’ that needs to be bridged.
[John] And Thomas, how big is this problem in the Netherlands?
[Thomas] The problem is enormous. Many companies invest significant amounts in strategy departments, innovation, consultants, and gather lots of knowledge and input.
[John] Exactly, for instance in product development. Beautiful plans are made for new propositions and products. But then comes the challenge: how do we roll this out?
[Thomas] That’s where the problem arises. Many companies fail to make real choices and always let the short term outweigh what they want to build for the long term. When you start something new, you must make choices and stick with them. The moment the first setbacks occur—like a disappointment or during a salary round—the controllers step in and say: “We’re only spending money and not seeing results yet, so let’s stop this project.” At that point, the project has already failed before it’s had a chance to succeed.
[John] Companies where the controller makes the final decisions are generally not the most successful, as I’ve learned.
[Thomas] It’s great to have your finances in order, and often the pain doesn’t seem that severe. Large companies often keep running regardless. Managers typically have a horizon of about three to five years, and within that timeframe, no major problems usually arise. But as a leader, it’s also valuable to have ambition and build something that will not only benefit you but also your successors and the next generation.
[John] Looking at how leadership has evolved over the years, Patrick, what do you see as the biggest changes?
[Patrick] When it comes to business models, we see that they are no longer linear but far more digital and dynamic. They move from left to right, from top to bottom, as a result of the digitization we’ve experienced. This requires a completely different type of leadership. Where it used to be primarily about hierarchy, it’s now much more about collaboration.
[John] Co-creation.
[Patrick] Precisely. Where the emphasis used to be on control, it’s now more about enabling people to do their work independently. And where fixed structures were once central, it’s now all about flexibility. This shift goes hand in hand with a move from task-oriented leadership to people-oriented leadership. These changes ultimately make organizations much more flexible.
[John] At the same time, the things you describe are relatively abstract and “soft.” Let me turn to you, Thomas. People-oriented, collaborative—doesn’t a leader sometimes need to slam their fist on the table and say, “This is how we’re doing it”?
[Thomas] Absolutely, and I think we shouldn’t just discard those old concepts. Task-oriented or hierarchical leadership still has its place. If we only focus on people-oriented approaches and co-creation, we’ll quickly end up in a kind of endless discussion. On the other hand, it’s essential to clearly establish: “This is the output we want to achieve, this is the company we want to build, these are the results we aim for.” Within that clear direction, you can then give people a lot of freedom.
[John] Yes, because Patrick describes some modern forms of leadership. Servant leadership is a term that often comes up. If you want to make new business models succeed today, can you outline a certain type of leadership we need for this?
[Thomas] I think a good leader can adapt to the situation. What kind of people are in your team? What challenge are you dealing with? Where do you stand in the market? What is the culture within your company? Based on those factors, you can tailor your leadership. For instance, if you have ten people in your team, they may all have different needs. One might require a lot of space, while another needs clear guidance. Servant, flexible leadership allows you to adjust your style based on the situation or the individual.
[Patrick] But can we expect one person to be very clear with Peter one moment, and give John much more freedom the next?
[Thomas] You have to learn that. And not everyone is suited for it. You need to have a bit of versatility. But if you can provide that flexibility, you can make it successful.
[Patrick] This morning, I spoke to Joost at an event. He was a guest on our show before with his company Seenons, which focuses on waste management and has become successful in generating revenue. Joost mentioned that his company has grown to 80 employees in a short time. He noted that he’s now facing a new challenge: the first group of employees, who enjoyed building things in a free role, now have to adapt to a more structured approach. Suddenly, forms need to be filled out, and approvals are required. He asked himself if he’s the right person to lead the company in this phase.
I also found it interesting to hear about a more extreme example from Scotland, involving BrewDog, a beer brand that has grown enormously in recent years. The founder, James, who built the company, recently announced that he’s stepping down.
[John] Why is he stepping down?
[Patrick] It’s a conscious choice. He feels it’s time for someone else to lead the company further. It’s not about a disagreement; he just wants to do other things.
[John] And Thomas, looking at this from your work with large organizations, what are the common mistakes made in strategy development or rolling out a new proposition?
[Thomas] The biggest mistake is often not making sharp choices. Companies keep their strategies too broad. Once you make a choice, there are consequences—some things you must stop doing. But many organizations try to do everything and keep piling on.
It’s also crucial to think about having the right team. As Patrick nicely pointed out, you must ask yourself: Am I the right leader for this phase? And do I have the right team? Different phases require different leaders and different teams. This is often overlooked. If you don’t make sharp choices in your strategy and team, there’s a lack of clarity in direction, leadership becomes vague, and the team isn’t equipped to succeed. Then it ends up going nowhere.
[Patrick] Exactly, it leads to nothing. How about the commitment from the top for such new projects? Often, you see a controller trying to free up a budget, but when things get tough, the plug is quickly pulled on an innovation. As a leader, you need to be willing to truly commit to innovation, even when things aren’t going smoothly or it doesn’t immediately generate revenue.
[Thomas] That’s indeed a tough question for leaders: are we doing this just for appearances, to show analysts and the outside world, or are we truly trying to achieve something?
[Patrick] For appearances—yes, you often see that. You don’t have to name names, but I’m sure you encounter it regularly.
[Thomas] That’s correct. Many companies want to show the world that they’re engaged in innovation. But often, these are small projects that have little impact on the business.
[Patrick] When starting as a strategy or innovation consultant, the first step is getting commitment from the top. Often, that means a signature under a budget. But we also ask the question in return: It’s about time and budget now, but what happens when it involves closing stores or letting go of people and teams? Will the commitment still be there?
Furthermore, we see doubt not only in negative consequences but also in positive ones. For example, if successful innovation requires further investment, will the enthusiasm for the concept remain?
[John] I recently listened to a podcast where Joop van der Voort from Remote said: “Building the right leadership team is actually my most important task as the CEO of this company. I need only top performers by my side.” Thomas, would you agree with that?
[Thomas] Absolutely. If you have a strong team around you, you’re more likely to turn a bad idea into something good. Conversely, executing a good idea with a bad team is nearly impossible.
[Patrick] When you look at leadership qualities, you ultimately get to the deeper personal traits of people. For example, the ability to truly make choices. Some people struggle with this and prefer to keep everyone happy. They exhibit pleasing behavior and avoid making tough decisions.
[John] Yes, to be honest, I sometimes have that issue myself.
[Thomas] That’s fine, but then you’re probably not the right person to bring us in.
When it comes to leadership, you mentioned commitment at the top. On the one hand, you need strong commitment. This means that as an organization, you’re willing to invest long-term—in a team, in budget, and in resources to realize a strategy or innovation. That doesn’t mean you have to spend the full amount immediately, but it should be available so you don’t have to keep seeking approval.
On the other hand, as a leader, you also need to start small. Begin compactly, ensure it’s well-structured, and don’t involve the entire organization from the outset. Additionally, dare to make your own role smaller. By delegating responsibility to the right people around you, you create space for them to excel.
This balance in leadership is what’s needed to grow new business models, innovative organizations, and strategies successfully.
[John] Strong leadership is the engine behind innovation and new business models. How to organize that is what we’re discussing today with Thomas Beerepoot from Bolster. Thomas has been active in boardrooms as an advisor for over twenty years. Managers listening to our program often hear that you need to experiment quickly and engage with customers immediately. You mentioned that earlier, Thomas. Why does this often go wrong?
[Thomas] It often goes wrong because things are made too large from the start. It becomes a massive exercise with extensive strategies, plans, and innovation trajectories, while you can actually start very compactly. Within a few hours, you can come up with a good idea, test it, and take the first small steps.
[John] And share that idea immediately with a select group of customers?
[Thomas] Exactly. A good example of this comes from the telecom sector. Innovation doesn’t always have to be futuristic, with terms like the metaverse, AI, or versions 3.0, 4.0, or 5.0. Often, you can find it much closer to home by looking at the problems your current customers are experiencing.
In this specific case, a telecom company had an idea they wanted to work on for six months before speaking to customers. We asked, “Who are your three dream customers?” They named three companies. Then we suggested inviting those companies for a meeting the following week. They agreed, and during that meeting, we told them, “In nine months, we’ll send you the first invoice for our new product.”
[John] That’s a powerful approach.
[Thomas] Yes, the customers laughed, but it immediately set the tone. Instead of presenting abstract ideas, we got down to concrete work. The customers immediately shared what was important to them, such as how the product would need to fit into their systems. In this way, we essentially developed the product together with them. Ultimately, these companies became real customers.
[John] By involving them early, they were able to help shape the proposition.
[Patrick] That’s a great example. But have you ever encountered a situation where you thought, “This needs to stop. Pull the plug.”
[Thomas] Yes, within that same company, there was also an innovation project that had been ongoing for years. The team members were exhausted and doubted the progress. At one point, we invited all internal stakeholders and spent two days together offsite. We calculated and discussed everything. By the end of those two days, we concluded: we either go all-in on this, or we stop completely.
[John] That’s often a tough decision. Do companies listen to you in such situations?
[Thomas] I don’t tell them what to do. I facilitate the process so they can arrive at a well-considered conclusion themselves. When that leads to the decision to stop, you often see a mix of sadness and relief. Sadness from those who have worked on it for years, but also relief because there’s finally clarity. That creates space for new initiatives with energy and momentum.
[John] It’s interesting, what Thomas is saying, Patrick: that you should involve your customer early in the development of your new product, proposition, or whatever you’re working on. We often discuss this in our shows, yet it remains a challenging step for many companies. Why is that?
[Patrick] That’s because it’s simply much more comfortable to stay behind your desk and avoid confrontation. It’s really about certainty and uncertainty. Certainty is going to the office every day, chairing meetings, and doing your work. Uncertainty is encountering setbacks, spending more time searching for answers, or finding that your work doesn’t stop at 5 PM. Not everyone feels comfortable with that constant confrontation with the unknown. Even within our own team, we have people who prefer stability, while others thrive in a dynamic, unpredictable environment.
[John] Is it a kind of fear, Thomas? That people don’t want to engage with customers because they’re afraid of criticism or discovering they might be doing something wrong?
[Thomas] That absolutely plays a role. As long as you’re still working on something, it hasn’t really failed—you’re still busy with it. But it takes courage to say, “We’ve seen that this doesn’t work, so we’re stopping.” Making that decision is incredibly difficult, but it can be very liberating.
[John] Patrick, you wanted to bring something up: design-led leadership. What does that entail?
[Patrick] It’s leadership inspired by design thinking. I encountered it when I was invited to Silicon Valley. Lisa Kay Solomon, a professor at Stanford, invited me. Leadership in Silicon Valley is much more about curiosity, telling compelling stories, and facilitating experiments.
A memorable example was a strategy session we did at Berkeley University with the Dean. One of the university’s core values was curiosity. But Lisa asked an interesting question: “If you want students to be curious, shouldn’t the faculty also embody that? Shouldn’t you actively show interest in the students and their personal development?” It got everyone thinking.
Another powerful principle I learned there is show, don’t tell. Ralph Hamers, then CEO of ING, executed this brilliantly. Instead of trying to convince his management team with PowerPoint presentations about changes in the world, he simply took them to Silicon Valley to experience it firsthand.
This approach works with customers too. For example, with Western Union, we spent a day in their branches observing how processes actually worked. It confronted people with reality, and once they experienced that, they were often deeply motivated to make changes.
[John] Interesting! Patrick says leadership in 2024 will involve dealing with far more uncertainties than 10, 20, or 30 years ago. Does that make it more challenging?
[Thomas] Absolutely. It makes it more important to trust yourself and your intuition. It requires two things: courage and honest conversations. You need the courage to push through a vision, even when others think you’re crazy. Often, the best innovations come from that.
Additionally, you need to be willing to have the real conversations—with colleagues, customers, or anyone involved. That means listening to uncomfortable truths and not running away from them. If you confront that discomfort, the connection only grows stronger.
[John] Can you learn good leadership, or is it primarily talent?
[Thomas] There’s definitely an element of talent involved, but there’s also a lot to learn. If you’re willing to develop yourself, you can go a long way.
[John] You work on leadership development too, don’t you?
[Thomas] That’s correct.
[John] And what does that look like? Is it the classic model: a few days at a retreat, sitting in a circle, discussing cases?
[Thomas] Leadership development almost always starts with yourself. Of course, cases and strategies are often part of it, but it begins with the question: Where do you want to go yourself? And where do you think the company could go, not based on what you already do, but from the idea of creating something new?
Then comes the question: Are you brave enough to take those steps? Or are you actually quite comfortable where you are and prefer not to take risks? Only after that do we look at the content, structure it, build a strategy, and create a mix of strategy and leadership to actually make it happen.
[Patrick] John, I have to admit something.
[John] Go ahead!
[Patrick] With some of our projects, I noticed that leadership was really lacking. And honestly, we can’t fill that gap. We’re strong on the content side, but not in guiding leadership development. So, I said to Thomas, “I’ll come by your office sometime.” He agreed and said, “I’ll bring a colleague because this is also about you.” And I immediately thought, “This isn’t about me at all!” But anyway, I visited for an hour, and I have to say, I was really impressed.
[John] Would you like to share something about that? What came up for you?
[Patrick] Like many companies and entrepreneurs, the past few years have been a rollercoaster for us, and sometimes it still is. In that conversation with Thomas and his colleague, things came up that seemed completely self-evident to me or perhaps a bit hidden in how I spoke or acted. But they picked up on it immediately and dug deeper. It was quite confronting but also very valuable.
[John] Thomas Beerepoot from Bolster, thank you for this studio conversation. We’ve learned a lot from it. And for our listeners: Patrick and I will be back next week. In the meantime, want to listen to more? Check out our other episodes on virtually all major podcast platforms. See you next week!
